Interview: George Hearn

It's always a treat to revisit a Broadway musical and find it in opening-night shape--and in the case of Wicked, a big reason why the show feels fresh is its wonderful new Wizard of Oz, two-time Tony winner George Hearn. Although the 70-year-old actor has spent the last few years in self-imposed retirement on his upstate New York farm, he couldn't resist the chance to play a featured part in a show his 5- and 7-year-old sons would enjoy. The warm and candid Hearn chatted with Broadway.com about his take on the Wizard, his 20-year history with Sweeney Todd, his feelings about the upcoming revival of La Cage aux Folles and the age-old Stephen Sondheim vs. Jerry Herman debate.

This part is a great fit for you, and it's so much fun to see you bickering with Carole Shelley and dancing with Idina Menzel!
I'm having a wonderful time. When they called me, I didn't even know the play; I've retired and live up in the country with my wife and kids. I had no intention of coming back, but they called at a moment when I needed to build a new barn. [Laughs] I also wanted my kids to get to know New York City, and this is a great way to do it. They'll be able to go backstage and sit in the orchestra pit and things like that.

I had no idea you had two little boys! [Hearn married his current wife, Leslie Simons, 20 years ago when he was starring in La Cage aux Folles and she was a member of the ensemble.]
Yes, we had them just at the end of the possibility. [Laughs] I also have a 42-year-old son. The little ones saw me in Putting It Together, which was the last thing I did in New York, but they were so young I don't think it registered. I'm sure they'll be intrigued by this story [of Wicked]. My wife showed them [The Wizard of Oz] the other day, so they'll be somewhat prepared.

Now I understand why you recently starred in a movie with Barney the purple dinosaur.
Oh, there are checkout counter people who say to me, “I saw you in the Barney movie.” I say, “Lord, Lord!” [Laughs] I remember being interviewed with Colleen Dewhurst once when we were doing Love Letters in Baltimore and the interviewer said, “Isn't it a shame that after all that O'Neill and Shakespeare, you'll be remembered as Murphy Brown's mother?” I thought Colleen was going to slug her, but then she burst out laughing.

Wicked is in great shape. Has the arrival of new cast members revved things up?
Probably so. There's tremendous enthusiasm in the whole company. I think Jennifer Laura Thompson is wonderful [as Glinda], and Idina is just a force of nature, isn't she?

She is awesome, much stronger and more moving than I remember from the first time.
And she's a wonderful human being, really gracious and deferential, a feet-on-the-ground type of gal. She and Laura work beautifully together. I adore both of them.

Did you work with [director] Joe Mantello?
A little bit. When I came in, I said, “You know, I'm not Joel Grey.” I'm a great admirer of Joel's, but everything about us is totally different. I'm not a nimble fellow; I'm an actor/singer, so I told them, “If you've got a lot of dancing here, this is going to be a disaster.” Not because I'm perversely refusing to dance, but it's not a facility of mine. They told me that they wanted to rethink the part with me, so I said, “Let's go from the [movie Wizard] Frank Morgan point of view.” I thought Frank was fantastic, and that's a more interesting approach for me. I also think the Wizard can be a little more formidable and scary.

Well, we know from Sweeney Todd that you can be scary!
It scared me sometimes, too. [Laughs]

I treated myself to a double feature the other night of you and Angela Lansbury in the filmed version of the original Sweeney and then you and Patti LuPone in concert version.
You took a beating that night! [Laughs]

It must have been an amazing experience to perform that role 20 years after having done it the first time.
It was unbelievable. After Putting It Together, I had said, “This is it; I'm retired,” and then Bryn Terfel's back went out [before the 2000 New York Philharmonic concert] and my agent said, “I bet they're going to call you.” I said, “The last thing in the world I will do again is Sweeney Todd. With everyone flying in to hear the world's greatest living baritone sing it? All I can do is die!” Well, sure enough, they called me, and I took it, and oh my God, I was glad I did. Because if you want to leave at the height of the party, that was it. It doesn't get any better than a reprise of Sweeney with Patti and the New York Philharmonic. That first night at the curtain call, I was going to give Patti the last bow, as I had with Angela. So I took my bow and turned to her, and she wouldn't take her bow. She just looked at me. It was overwhelming. We went on to do it in San Francisco, which was the recording you saw, and at the Ravinia Festival with the Chicago Symphony. That was a wild ride. And Lonny Price did a beautiful directing job.

You've done Broadway musicals with a wide range of composers, from Sondheim and Jerry Herman to Andrew Lloyd Webber and now Stephen Schwartz. Have you gotten to know them?
Yes, and it was all a matter of luck and timing. I happened to be in New York and in the talent pool at a time when all these people were flourishing. Stephen [Sondheim] is a very private man, but yes, I think I am a friend of his. And I was in Richard Rodgers' last show--he was at every rehearsal of I Remember Mama--so I got to know him as well. The joy of my career is the variety of people I've gotten to work with. I like Steve Schwartz a lot; he works in many styles. My friend Gordon Hunt, Helen Hunt's father, just directed a huge Hollywood Bowl production of a mass Steve wrote to great acclaim.

I vividly remember the 1984 Tony race between La Cage and Sunday in the Park With George. [La Cage won six major awards, including Best Musical and Hearn as Best Actor; Sunday won two technical awards.] Is it fair to say that Jerry Herman has a Sondheim complex?
I wouldn't say that. You know, I was up against [Sunday star] Mandy Patinkin, and I heard that he came to his theater in drag the next day saying, “If this is what they want…” [Laughs] I always said that these guys [Sondheim and Herman] are hunting different game; they can't be compared. Just because there is music in both of their shows doesn't mean that one is better than the other. Jerry wants to entertain in a different way than Stephen wants to challenge. But you know, it drives me crazy when people talk about Stephen's “coldness” or say “he doesn't write melodies.” Stephen writes magnificently beautiful music as well as challenging music. Both of them are trying to be the best of who they are.

I recall that Jerry Herman's Tony acceptance speech included a reference to his own music being hummable and melodic. My recollection is that he fanned the flames of the argument a little bit.
That was unfortunate. It was kind of like watching the conventions--people saying some things that shouldn't be said. But we all did--I forgot to thank [La Cage co-star] Gene Barry in my Tony speech! Jerry is generally a very generous and loving man. He may have had his back up a little bit; Stephen is beloved of the critics, and that may have rankled Jerry. But I think it was uncharacteristic of him.

Are you surprised La Cage is being revived?
In my opinion, it should never have closed. I think it closed because the Palace Theater was being renovated and they didn't want to spend the money to move it, or perhaps the temperature of the country changed with the arrival of AIDS. But that's all the more reason it should always have been running. It was such a magnificent moral pleasure to do that show for straight America. It was a very important play in its time. Since then, I know that Angels in America and other serious plays have come along; La Cage may seem a little old-fashioned now. But it touched and moved people, even people who may have been homophobic. I'm so glad it's coming back. Gary Beach is doing the role I did, and he is one of the best actors and one of the funniest, most charming guys I know. He is many things I wasn't--a physical clown for one thing. I've known him since 1970, when we were in 1776. I played John Dickinson, the man from Pennsylvania who wouldn't sign, and he was the boy who sings “Momma Look Sharp.”

Have you always combined singing and non-singing roles?
No, when I first came to New York in 1963, I did Shakespeare for Joe Papp. That first summer, I was in As Your Like It with Sam Waterston and Paula Prentiss. In those days, if you were an actor of any ambition, you went through the eye of the needle, which was Shakespeare in the Park. I've done about 185 plays in my career--mostly the classics--and only about 20 musicals.

What are your memories of Sunset Boulevard, the show that brought you your second Tony?
Well, at the time, I was down and out in Beverly Hills. [Laughs] Somebody once called the Tony "the springboard to oblivion," and after La Cage, nothing happened for me. I had done a couple of shows that didn't work, and Angela asked me to come out and do a Murder, She Wrote. My wife said, “Why don't we move out there and you can try your luck?” I'm not what they call a “face man,” so my luck was only moderate. I didn't like L.A. very much because I'm not a film person. I'm not comfortable on camera.

Really? I'm surprised to hear you say that.
I'm used to a month of rehearsal, a performance where you tell a story with a beginning, middle, and end, and an audience that tells you whether they like it or not. That's a whole event to me, and when you've done it for 30 or 40 years, that's the way your creative juices flow. To wait for four or five hours in a trailer and then be called out in front of 70 lighting and camera people to do a scene with someone you've just met on a set you've never been on… I find it a very difficult way to work. I did a movie [Sneakers] with Robert Redford and I said, “How on earth do you work like this?” And he said, “How on earth do you do eight shows a week?” Anyway, the stage is my home, and when I heard about Sunset Boulevard, I thought, “Please let me come back to New York in this show!” I had been studying voice out there in my great deal of leisure time, and I learned to sing high; the first song, “The Greatest Star,” had a very high ending, which I thought would be fun. It was a lovely return to New York.

You've co-starred with a lot of divas. Is there a trick to making it work?
One of the tricks is that I very seldom know who they are! [Laughs] I don't pay a lot of attention to show biz, and I'm not easily impressed by stars. But that's been another of my lucky blessings--to have been a close friend of Colleen Dewhurst and Zoe Caldwell and to have worked opposite Liv Ullmann and Lauren Bacall and Patti LuPone and Glenn Close. I adore women. To a fault! [Laughs]

You were married three times before. Have all of your wives been actresses?
Let me think. No, my first wife was not.

But your marriage to Leslie has lasted…
For 20 years! That's another reason I'm back in New York--I have to buy another diamond. [Laughs] We were married during the run of La Cage aux Folles at the U.N. chapel. It was a five-minute ceremony, and then we had a gigantic, seven-hour party with Van Johnson and a whole bunch of wonderful folks. Nobody thought it would last because I had a bad reputation. [Laughs] But we've made it through 20 years, and our children have been an incredible blessing. I wasn't there enough for my first son, although we are great friends now and have been for years.

Tell me about your life upstate. Are you really a farmer now?
The local farmers would laugh if they heard me saying that; it's a gentleman farm. I have about seven acres of fields and I'm putting in an orchard and a vineyard. I have blackberries and raspberries and a big pumpkin patch. The area has a rich mix of people and it's a terrific place for kids. People here ask me, “What do you do all day up there?” And I say, “What do you do all day down here?” What's interesting is that I'm constantly learning new things: I make birdhouses with my boys in my woodworking shop and do a lot of carpentry.

And now you can teach the boys about Broadway.
That's right. They're going to have the time of their lives when they see those flying monkeys!