Lessons from Stephen Sondheim: Jerome Robbins is a Flower Murderer, How to Make an Old Tune New & More

Take a break from the Into the Woods trailer for just a second. Composing legend Stephen Sondheim recently sat down with Adam Gopnik during The New Yorker Festival, and we’ve been mulling over some of the lessons and words of wisdom he shared. One of these days, we’ll use it to write the next great American musical. But for now, here are some of the most intriguing, baffling and—frankly—depressing tidbits from his talk.

1. There's no such thing as a unified score
“You can’t…because there’s dialogue in between,” he explains. Those pesky book writers. So how does he string together all those melodies? “I structure the long line before I start filling in everything.” Eventually, characters collide, and these interactions form key moments lifted from the materials he has already set up. OK. Sounds easy enough, right?

2. Need a new tune? Flip an old one
Eventually, when you get to the moments, there is a sense of structure, and you don’t have to pull things out of thin air. “You take this one,” he explains, “and you turn it upside down, and it’s a new tune. You take this one, you take the harmonies and say, ‘Instead of major, let’s make it minor.’ And suddenly it’s a new song.” Hmm. When we play “The Miller's Son” in reverse, it sounds like sh*t. How does he do it, exactly?

3. Dream projects can be minimalist
Very minimalist. Like, to the point where it doesn’t exist. “My idea of a dream project is not writing,” Sondheim says. “When you’re not hungry anymore, you get less eager to write.” Fortunately, Sondheim’s musical tummy is still rumbling; he is teaming up with David Ives for a new show at the Public Theater, adapted from the Luis Buñuel films The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie and The Exterminating Angel.

4. Sondheim is the Pied Piper of Broadway
In true Sondheim fashion, the new project’s first half “will be a delight, and the second act will make you want to kill yourselves.” The composer added, “That’s what I like to write!” Don’t we know it, Sondheim. Don’t. We. Know. It. And we’ll continue to leap off the cliff while singing “Losing My Mind” every time.

5. How many flowers are left, Chino?!
Sondheim recalls that during the early days of West Side Story, director/choreographer Jerome Robbins returned from a dance in the Bronx with the idea to have the girls present the guys with flowers, which they would put in the cuff of their pants. Cut to actually rehearsing it: “The stage was a battle of flowers going into people’s eyes, their hair, their ears.” Side note: “Jerry Robbins went up to a gang dance in the Bronx” is officially the best way to start any story.